Ö³êàâà òeìà íà ïðàâ. ñàéò³ ïðî "ìàëeíüêîãî Àäàìà"
09/26/2007 | Ãåîðã³é
Çíàéøîâ íà îäíîìó âeá-ñàéò³ Ïðàâîñëàâíî¿ Öeðêâè (http://www.orthodox.clara.net/ancestral_sin.htm) îòàêó íeñïîä³âàíó "eêñêóðñ³þ" â ñâÿòîòîò÷eñüêèé ñïàäîê ïðî Àäàìà ³ éîãî ãð³õîïàä³ííÿ:
We learn from this starting point that Adam was like a child, fully capable of growing up in obedience to his Heavenly Father and achieving immortality. We know that he ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in disobedience to God’s Word and suffered death as a result. We are not dealing here with the Promethean myth of Greek paganism in which Prometheus stole fire from the gods and paid the price for his audacity. The fruit itself was not placed in Eden with a permanent exclusion zone around it leaving humanity in state of infantile innocence. God’s intention was that Adam should grow up through obedience until he received the necessary spiritual maturity to handle such things. Like a child he had to be taught. But like many children and adults he would not be taught. He wanted to be autonomous; to be God-like without God and he thereby brought death down upon his head.
Listen to St. Irenaeus:-
"Man was a little one, and his discretion still undeveloped, wherefore also he was easily misled by the deceiver."
St. Irenaeus and the Fathers generally, therefore, do not see death as a divine punishment for the disobedience of our first parents. This distortion arose later in the west under the influence of Augustine. The Fathers rather interpret the consequences of the Fall as something we brought on ourselves when we distanced ourselves from God. God still walks in the Garden. It is we who hide and shamefully cover our nakedness. Likewise, the expulsion of Adam and Eve from Paradise and the angel standing guard with the flaming sword is not an act of divine retribution but a compassionate and merciful provision lest we eat of the second tree, the Tree of Life, and die eternally. The fruit of this tree, if we had eaten it, would have condemned us forever.
(Êîðîòêèé ïeðeêëàä: çã³äíî ç äóìêîþ äeÿêèõ îòö³â Öeðêâè, çîêðeìà ²ðèíeÿ ˳îíñüêîãî ³ äeÿêèõ ³íøèõ, Àäàì â ìîìeíò éîãî ãð³õîïàä³ííÿ áóâ ÷èìîñü íà êøòàëò ìàëeíüêî¿ äèòèíè, ÿêà ùe ïðîñòî íe ðîçâèíóëà ñâî¿õ çä³áíîñòeé äî êðèòè÷íî¿, ðîçñóäëèâî¿ ïîâeä³íêè. Âèãíàííÿ Àäàìà ç "ðàþ" íe áóëî àêòîì ïîìñòè ÷è êàðè, à áóëî, íàâïàêè, àêòîì äáàéëèâî¿ áàòüê³âñüêî¿ ëþáîâ³: Àäàì ñòàâ æèòè ó "ñâ³ò³," ñòàâ ñìeðòíèì, ³ ÷eðeç öe íe ñêóøòóâàâ ïëîäó ç ³íøîãî ðàéñüêîãî "äeðeâà" - "äeðeâà æèòòÿ." ßêáè Àäàìîâ³ ïðèéøëîñÿ â³äâ³äàòè ïëîäó òîãî äðóãîãî äeðeâà, â³í, ³ âeñü ëþäñüêèé ð³ä, áóëè á ïðîêëÿòèìè íà â³ê³ â³÷í³.)
We learn from this starting point that Adam was like a child, fully capable of growing up in obedience to his Heavenly Father and achieving immortality. We know that he ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in disobedience to God’s Word and suffered death as a result. We are not dealing here with the Promethean myth of Greek paganism in which Prometheus stole fire from the gods and paid the price for his audacity. The fruit itself was not placed in Eden with a permanent exclusion zone around it leaving humanity in state of infantile innocence. God’s intention was that Adam should grow up through obedience until he received the necessary spiritual maturity to handle such things. Like a child he had to be taught. But like many children and adults he would not be taught. He wanted to be autonomous; to be God-like without God and he thereby brought death down upon his head.
Listen to St. Irenaeus:-
"Man was a little one, and his discretion still undeveloped, wherefore also he was easily misled by the deceiver."
St. Irenaeus and the Fathers generally, therefore, do not see death as a divine punishment for the disobedience of our first parents. This distortion arose later in the west under the influence of Augustine. The Fathers rather interpret the consequences of the Fall as something we brought on ourselves when we distanced ourselves from God. God still walks in the Garden. It is we who hide and shamefully cover our nakedness. Likewise, the expulsion of Adam and Eve from Paradise and the angel standing guard with the flaming sword is not an act of divine retribution but a compassionate and merciful provision lest we eat of the second tree, the Tree of Life, and die eternally. The fruit of this tree, if we had eaten it, would have condemned us forever.
(Êîðîòêèé ïeðeêëàä: çã³äíî ç äóìêîþ äeÿêèõ îòö³â Öeðêâè, çîêðeìà ²ðèíeÿ ˳îíñüêîãî ³ äeÿêèõ ³íøèõ, Àäàì â ìîìeíò éîãî ãð³õîïàä³ííÿ áóâ ÷èìîñü íà êøòàëò ìàëeíüêî¿ äèòèíè, ÿêà ùe ïðîñòî íe ðîçâèíóëà ñâî¿õ çä³áíîñòeé äî êðèòè÷íî¿, ðîçñóäëèâî¿ ïîâeä³íêè. Âèãíàííÿ Àäàìà ç "ðàþ" íe áóëî àêòîì ïîìñòè ÷è êàðè, à áóëî, íàâïàêè, àêòîì äáàéëèâî¿ áàòüê³âñüêî¿ ëþáîâ³: Àäàì ñòàâ æèòè ó "ñâ³ò³," ñòàâ ñìeðòíèì, ³ ÷eðeç öe íe ñêóøòóâàâ ïëîäó ç ³íøîãî ðàéñüêîãî "äeðeâà" - "äeðeâà æèòòÿ." ßêáè Àäàìîâ³ ïðèéøëîñÿ â³äâ³äàòè ïëîäó òîãî äðóãîãî äeðeâà, â³í, ³ âeñü ëþäñüêèé ð³ä, áóëè á ïðîêëÿòèìè íà â³ê³ â³÷í³.)
³äïîâ³ä³
2007.09.26 | Ãåîðã³é
² ùe íeâeëè÷êèé êîìeíòàð äî öüîãî (çàâòðà ïeðeêëàäó)
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,12860.0.htmlYou have to remember that most Eastern Fathers state that Adam and Eve were not created as perfect beings (certainly not when compared to God and not even when compared to God's intended plan for them). So, Adam and Eve weren't perfect; they were good and pure. However, God wanted them to grow and progress in that purity and to thereby move into ever fuller communion with Him. (Sound familiar?)
That's an fundamental presupposition that may shed important light on everything. Got to run to dinner now, so here's a good section on this from an article by Fr. Anthony Hughes. Maybe his article will answer everything. If not, I'll post more.
http://www.stmaryorthodoxchurch.org/orthodoxy/articles/2004-hughes-sin.php
In Orthodox thought Adam and Eve were created with a vocation: to become one with God gradually increasing in their capacity to share in His divine life—deification[2] (Romanides, 2002, p. 76-77). “They needed to mature, to grow to awareness by willing detachment and faith, a loving trust in a personal God” (Clement, 1993, p. 84). Theophilus of Antioch (2nd Century) posits that Adam and Eve were created neither immortal nor mortal. They were created with the potential to become either through obedience or disobedience (Romanides, 2002).
The freedom to obey or disobey belonged to our first parents, “For God made man free and sovereign” (Romanides, 2002, p. 32). To embrace their God-given vocation would bring life, to reject it would bring death, but not at God’s hands. Theophilus continues, “…should he keep the commandment of God he would be rewarded with immortality…if, however, he should turn to things of death by disobeying God, he would be the cause of death to himself” (Romanides, 2002, p. 32)
Adam and Eve failed to obey the commandment not to eat from the forbidden tree thus rejecting God and their vocation to manifest the fullness of human existence (Yannaras, 1984). Death and corruption began to reign over the creation. “Sin reigned through death.” (Romans 5:21) In this view death and corruption do not originate with God; he neither created nor intended them. God cannot be the Author of evil. Death is the natural result of turning aside from God.
Adam and Eve were overcome with the same temptation that afflicts all humanity: to be autonomous, to go their own way, to realize the fullness of human existence without God. According to the Orthodox fathers sin is not a violation of an impersonal law or code of behavior, but a rejection of the life offered by God (Yannaras, 1984). This is the mark, to which the word amartia refers. Fallen human life is above all else the failure to realize the God-given potential of human existence, which is, as St. Peter writes, to “become partakers of the divine nature” (II Peter 1:4). St. Basil writes: “Humanity is an animal who has received the vocation to become God” (Clement, 1993, p. 76).
In Orthodox thought God did not threaten Adam and Eve with punishment nor was He angered or offended by their sin; He was moved to compassion.[3] The expulsion from the Garden and from the Tree of Life was an act of love and not vengeance so that humanity would not “become immortal in sin” (Romanides, 2002, p. 32). Thus began the preparation for the Incarnation of the Son of God and the solution that alone could rectify the situation: the destruction of the enemies of humanity and God, death (I Corinthians 15:26, 56), sin, corruption and the devil (Romanides, 2002).
2007.09.27 | +O
Re: Ö³êàâà òeìà íà ïðàâ. ñàéò³ ïðî "ìàëeíüêîãî Àäàìà"
Ñëàâà ²ñóñó Õðèñòó!ëþáîâ Ñâÿò³ îî. "ïîä³ëÿþòü" íà äâ³ ÷àñòèíè: ñï³âñòðàæäàþ÷à (ëåãøå) ³ ñï³âðàä³þ÷à (âàæ÷å)
ìåí³ òàêå ðîçð³çíåííÿ äîïîìàãàº
ä³ëþñÿ
Ç ïîâàãîþ
î.Îëåã
2007.09.27 | Ãåîðã³é
Äóæe ñèëüíî, äÿêóþ, îò÷e Îëeæe
2007.09.28 | +Î
Re: Ö³êàâà òeìà íà ïðàâ. ñàéò³ ïðî "ìàëeíüêîãî Àäàìà"
Ñëàâà ²ñóñó Õðèñòó!ÿ ãð³øíèé ìàþ ëàñêó/õðåñò â³ä Áîãà ñïîâ³äàòè ëþäåé ³ îäíèì ç íàéïîøèðåí³øèõ ãð³õ³â, ÿêèé âàæêî ïåðåáîðîòè, º "ãí³âàííÿ/íåïðèÿçíü". Öåé ãð³õ, ó íàøîìó êîíêðåòíîìó âèïàäêó, íå ó òîìó, ùî ìîëîäøèé ñèí ñâîºþ ïîâåä³íêîþ çàñëóæèâ ñõâàëåííÿ, à ó òîìó, ùî ñòàðøèé ñèí âçÿâ íà ñåáå ðîëü ñóää³ ³ äàâ èíøèé âèðîê â³ä òîãî, êîìó íàëåæèòü ó ïàòð³àðõàëüíîìó ñóñï³ëüñòâ³ ñóää³âñòâî - áàòüêà. Íàâìèñíå ïèøó "áàòüêî" ç ìàëåíüêî¿ ë³òåðè, áî, ÿêùî ñïðèéìàòè ïðèò÷ó ëèøå ç òîþ óâàæí³ñòþ ((â.î.) P.M. Óâàæí³øèìè áóäüòå, óâàæí³øèìè.), ÿêó ïðîïîíóºòå Âè, ïàíå Þð³þ, òî ïðèò÷à ïðî áëóäíîãî ñèíà: ðîçïîâ³äü ïðî ÿêóñü ñîá³ ñ³ì`þ, ÿêà íå ìຠí³÷îãî äî Áîãà Îòöÿ ³ íàñ - Éîãî ä³òåé. Ìè æ ³ðóºìî, ùî ìàº, ÿê ³ òå, ùî çàãóáëåíó â³âöþ ("ìåíå ãð³øíîãî") ç òåðïåëèâ³ñòþ øóêຠÕðèñòîñ ³ ðà䳺, ñâÿòêóþ÷è ¿¿ ïîâåðíåííÿ, áî Áîæà ëþáîâ º ïîâíîþ (ñï³âñòðàæäàþ÷îþ ³ ñï³âðàä³þ÷îþ), ëþäñüêà ëþáîâ - íåäîñêîíàëà, áî ÷àñòî íå â쳺 ðàä³òè çà áëèæíüîãî "ÿêèé âìåð áóâ ³ îæèâ" (ëþáèâ áè (ñï³âñòðàæäàëüíî) ÿêáè "âìåðàâ áóâ ³ òàêè âìåð"
À âçàãàë³, ïåðåôðàçîâóþ÷è Âàñ:
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öÿ ðîçìîâà õàðàêòåðíà òèì, ùî çàì³ñòü, ùîá "ñèëîþ çäîðîâîãî ãëóçäó" ïîáà÷èòè, ùî Ãîñïîäü íå ðîçïîâ³äຠêàçî÷êè ïðî "ÿêèõîñü òàì ëþäåé", à ó Ïðèò÷³ ãîâîðèòü ïðî "ìîº" (ó Âàøîìó âèïàäêó - Þð³ÿ; ó ìîìó - Îëåãà...) íóòðî ³ çàîõî÷óº ó ïðèêëàä³ "áàòüêà" äîðîñòè äî ïðàâäèâî¿ Ëþáîâè, ÿêó ìຠäî ëþäñüêî¿ îñîáè Áîã (îáîæåñòâèòèñÿ), Âè (ïàí Ð.Ì.) çíîâó ãîâîðèòå ïðî ðå÷³ òðåòüîðÿäí³, ëîã³÷í³: í³õòî íå ïðè÷èñëþº ñòàðøîãî ñèíà äî "çàêîííèê³â", áî ïðèò÷à ïðî êîæíîãî ³ çà êîæíèì âèá³ð - áðàòè íà ñåáå ðîëü Ñóää³ ÷è í³
Ç ïîâàãîþ
î.Îëåã
2007.10.08 | Ãîëóáü
ÊÀÊÎÅ ïðîêëÿòèå?
Ïèí÷óê ãîâîðèë, ÷òî ðàç Àäàì íå äîáðàëñÿ äî äåðåâà æèçíè, çà ýòî åãî Áîã íå ïðîêëÿë, íî Àäàì áûë ïðîêëÿò çà æåíó è çà äåðåâî ïîçíàíèÿ äîáðà è çëà, è ïîãèá èìåííî èç-çà ýòîãî...Òàê êàêîå åùå åìó ïðîêëÿòèå ìîãëî áûòü?
Ðàçâå Õðèñòîñ íå èìåë ïëîäîâ ñ äåðåâà Æèçíè, è îñòàëñÿ íå ïðîêëÿò?
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